German Migration?

topic posted Fri, March 18, 2005 - 11:44 PM by  offlineSatan`s Circus
While I have various interests in history my
main passion is researching and writing on
various local breweries. While researching
I`ve came across many german brewers
and while most never gave a reason for
coming to America, I have found that a
few had fled germany for economic reasons
or to escape fighting.

The story of the Best family I thought interesting,
they founded what became the Pabst brewing co.
they left germany because they were more liberal
than most and found the climate there stifling if
not dangerous.

Now from the few books i`ve read that touched on
the society of germany during the mid to late 1800`s
it left me with the impression that germany was a
very conservative, even militaristic culture. Am I far
off the mark with my assumptions? would a german
that was liberal be considered dangerous? I`d love
to hear some thoughts on this subject!!!!
posted by:
Satan`s Circus
Ohio
  • Re: German Migration?

    Fri, March 25, 2005 - 12:00 PM
    “Militarism” is a pretty good way to describe 19th Century German culture.

    Before the American Revolution, large numbers of Germans had already settled in the U.S., many in the state of Pennsylvania, where they were called “Pennsylvania Dutch.” (You asked them what their nationality was, and they said, “Deutsch,” so you put them down as Dutch.)

    There is a fairy tale (still believed by many people in Germany) that the Continental Congress voted to decide what the official language of the United States would be, and English won by only one vote. The one vote supposedly came from Benedict Arnold; otherwise we would be speaking German. Actually, there never were nearly enough Germans for that, and if you look at the names of the people who attended the Continental Congress, few if any of them were German. This story was invented by the American Bund (a pro-Nazi organization) in the 1930s.

    Immigration came in waves. One bunch of Germans arrived after the Napoleonic Wars and a second wave after the failed liberal revolution of 1848. Many of the latter group found themselves fighting (on both sides) in the American Civil War.

    During WWI, there was widespread hostility toward German-Americans. The German language was forbidden in the schools. Sauerkraut was renamed “Liberty Cabbage” (it didn’t stick), and Frankfurters became “Hot Dogs” (it did). Eventually, we got over it.

    During the 1930s, many political refugees from Germany came to the United States. Some of these were famous writers (Thomas Mann, Bertolt Brecht), scientists (Albert Einstein) or entertainers (Billy Wilder, Marlene Dietrich). This gave a cultural and scientific boost to the United States, even as it deprived Germany of some excellent talent. Most of the refugees, of course, were ordinary people who had the bad luck to be Jewish or otherwise unpopular with the Nazis.

    Unlike WWI, the Second World War didn’t lead to any widespread hostility toward German-Americans, most of whom were firmly anti-Nazi. (With the Japanese, it was a very different story.) German prisoners in the United States (at one point, there were about 600,000 of them) were, in general, very well treated, and some were disappointed about having to go back to Germany after the war.

    To get back to your original question, Germany first became a nation in 1871 under the King of Prussia and with a solid push from the scheming of Otto von Bismarck, his chancellor and the real power behind the throne. German culture at that time can be described as “militarist/pacifist.” They had a lot of big parades, but no wars between 1871 and 1914. Bismarck was a gloomy sort who believed that Germany had already expanded as much as it safely could, and that no good would come from taking in more French or Polish provinces.

    Another way of describing Bismarck’s Germany would be “liberal/monarchist”. Germany had a parliament (the Reichstag), abundant freedom of speech, social welfare and regular elections. On the other hand, real power remained in the hands of the Kaiser.

    There were persecuted minorities, but they weren’t Jews; they were Catholics. Bismarck viewed the political power of the Catholic Church as a threat to the monarchy and fought a (mainly fruitless) cultural war (Kulturkampf) against it. He also fought against the Social Democrats, a powerful socialist party, which he tried to suppress. This led to his own dismissal in 1890. (The Social Democrats went on to become the dominant party of the Weimar period.)

    German immigration in the late 19th Century probably had less to do with politics than with an economic recession which plagued Germany at that time.

    I hope some of this is interesting. For further information:


    www.realbeer.com/edu/abm/barons.php

    www.ulib.iupui.edu/kade/adams/chap1.html

    www.germany-info.org/relaunc...per.html

    www.answers.com/topic/german-american-3

    www.bergen.org/AAST/Proje...ration.html

    www.usc.edu/uscnews/stories/2600.html



    • Re: German Migration?

      Sat, March 26, 2005 - 11:50 PM
      I loved that story on the vote on whether we
      would speak english or german, I never heard
      that before!

      I do know of the mistreatment that germans
      went through during WWI and leading up to
      prohibition. I`ve read some accounts of the
      mistreatment of brewers by anti-saloon league
      and W.C.T.U. and it is just apalling to see the
      outlandish charges made against these men,
      based solely on the fact they were german and
      brewers. I talked to the grandson of a local
      brewer and it was so bad here that he was going
      to sell his brewery and move to Chile.

      I read a book on the Krupp family and it left me
      with the belief that germany has been a militaristic
      society up until after WWII, not sure how true this
      is but from the other sources I`ve seen it seems
      pretty acurate, at least in my opinion!

      I also have noticed that there has been a period of
      resentment aimed at germans in this country, it
      seems to have been at it`s worst from around the
      civil war to WWI, I`ve read how O.O.Howard`s 11th
      corps was always derided by the rest of the army of
      the potomac as those "damned dutchmen" because
      the 11th corps was made up mostly of germans, it
      got so bad for them that they were blamed for the
      defeat of Chancellorsville even though they paid
      a heavier toll in casualties than any other corps.
      but they did find a home in the army of the tennessee,
      seems these men out west liked their style of hard
      fighting and gave them alot of credit that they deserved.

      Also, I have noticed in my brewery research that there
      was an attempt by the pro-prohibition forces during
      WWII to try and villify the german brewers like they
      did during WWI, I have adds that equate brewers as
      helping hitler to defeat the U.S. thank god the american
      people didn`t buy into the propaganda!!!!!

      Oh yeah, thanks for the links, I`ll check them out!!!!
      • Re: German Migration?

        Sun, March 27, 2005 - 10:47 AM
        >>I read a book on the Krupp family and it left me
        with the belief that germany has been a militaristic
        society up until after WWII, not sure how true this
        is but from the other sources I`ve seen it seems
        pretty acurate, at least in my opinion!

        I'm presently reading a memoir, "Defying Hitler" by Sebastian Haffner (the pen name of Raimund Pretzel), which covers the period 1907-1933. Haffner says that Germans couldn't handle democracy in the 20s because they no longer had anyone telling them what to do . . .

        German militarism became useful to the United States during WW2 when we discovered that Nazi POWs were very open to taking orders from anyone in a position of authority:

        "Who could best get a work detail cracking? The Nazi noncoms. And the guys would go out swinging in the morning to work details singing the ‚Horst Wessel‘ song. . . . The efficiency in the laundry at every camp, post and station where we had prisoners increased a hundred and fifty percent. And beautiful work! I mean, shirts came out clean! And at night they’d go back, and of course, they’d go into the camps singing the Nazi songs." (The Enemy Among Us, POWs in Missouri During World War II)

        Working with anti-Nazi Germans wasn't much fun, because they weren't so good at taking orders . . .but those Nazis, great!

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